What's new

Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!

Open letter to the Skycade community, staff team, and management.

Status
Not open for further replies.

prchica2

Member
prchica2
prchica2
default
Joined
Aug 12, 2018
Messages
77
Likes
61
#41
new channel in the Discord known as #rules-updates which not all members are in
I agree with the points in the thread, especially this one. I am a member of it myself, but am completely inactive on Discord. I feel it is unfair since not all players are able to use the Discord. It would be better to have these rule updates on the Forums, not on the Discord. This would also help prevent players who have been banned from the Discord to unknowingly break rules that have only been shown to players that view the #rules-updates. I don’t believe this happens often, but it’s better than nothing.

Of course, if a player does something extremely worthy of a punishment, they should face that consequence regardless of having a Discord account or not. For example, a punishment for “spoilers” (I found out about this punishment on the Forums) might not be to big of a problem. However, something else that could cause greater issues and was only posted on the #rules-updates definitely deserves punishment.

Thanks for putting all of your thoughts out.
 

Dictator_Alideen

Well-known member
Dictator_Alideen
Dictator_Alideen
default
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Messages
626
Likes
382
#42
I understand this, however if names were removed from appeals there wouldnt be an easy way to get evidence or check history or any of that. For example lets say someone has hacked like, 3 times and got unbanned/reduced twice already. They say they weren’t hacking. There would be no way to get evidence or check history if a username wasnt included in an appeal. I do see how this would get rid of a lot of bias but it would make the appeal system a lot harder to deal with in my opinion.
well then another option would be to either make all evidence public and edit out staff chat etc or just blur chat entirely so that if there is a case of bias the community can clearly see it and this will make staff more lenient in not being bias otherwise the community will call them bias if they are (hope that makes sense)

I'd like to address this bit by bit.
1. I remember when you quit, tad annoying to see good players leave due to issues going with no acknowledgment or resolution.
2. Lesser Known? :LOL:
3. Staff tend to develop opinions of players just like anyone else would but when the opinions are negative, and influence punishments it causes a major issue. The punishments you've had from playing with rule violators such as Qwom without knowing can play a role in this. I've seen users appeal after about a month explaining everything, and get unbanned, yet those who have a bad relationship with some of the staff tend to get denied and told to wait.


To address all the replies I've gotten so far:
Huge thanks for all the support on this thread, and I'm glad it's actually sparked a conversation. Huge shout out to Astro, aCup and Tess for replying to the thread voicing their opinions as staff since it greatly helps the thread.
With the qwom thing that was a pick and choice scenario sure @SoMadSoBad will agree with me on that as i was a admin in the fac when it all happened and no opinions were ever made about me they specifically targeted certain people.
 

HugoDoesStuff

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Builder
Emerald
Diamond
HugoDoesStuff
HugoDoesStuff
Builder
Joined
Oct 17, 2018
Messages
228
Likes
239
#43
let this thread echo through the whole Skycade Forums. Amazing job on the letter!
I've been a victim of some of these, and would request a change too.
 

WelshAlex

Well-known member
Staff member
Manager
WelshAlex
WelshAlex
Manager
Joined
Jul 21, 2018
Messages
230
Likes
1,197
#44
As always I'd like to point out that you SHOULD NOT be writing threads in this format if avoidable. Multi point threads are really difficult to address, because as I respond to each of your points, someone else might want to respond to 2 of mine, then someone else will respond to a different 2, and it gets very difficult and confusing to follow the actual individual conversations being had about individual points. In future I really recommend you make individual threads for individual points. (And that's why after this response I won't be properly responding to this thread, but any queries or concerns to my response can be raised in a different thread or a DM to me!)

  • Staff Bias: Now this gets denied as the case often but sadly it's common to see occur. Staff who dislike certain players have tenancies to deny or accept things where as others with less experience with said player and just baseline info on history and behavior would tend to do something else. You've got players trying to become friends with staff so they can have that bias help them even. BirthtoBurial or James, a former SrMod who recently got demoted states . Now this clearly shows there is an issue with staff bias on the network, and I doubt it will stop anytime soon. Sadly I'm unable to think of a solution apart from set a standard punishment guidelines like already in place and actually ensure staff follow that guide and don't show bias when executing punishments.

First of all it's absolutely human nature to have bias. Staff are not robots, and anyone that is familiar with anyone else will have at least an underlying bias. This applies to any Minecraft server and any relationship ever had, really. What we aim to ensure is that the effects of that bias are as minimal as possible, and we do this in quite a few ways and I think we do it a lot better than a lot of Minecraft servers. Here's some of the things we do to prevent bias:
- If a player appeals a punishment then the staff member that punished said player CANNOT deny the appeal. It is up to a different staff member to review, and to evaluate whether or not the appeal should be accepted. On top of that the fact that any moderator+ can do appeals at any time further makes it likely that the appeal will just be stumbled upon by accident, and not with any sort of intent to be bias at all.
- Appeals are public, and so are punishments. This means any staff member or player is able to view an appeal or punishment and if they are concerned with the appeal/punishment they can raise their concerns to a staff member they trust or management.
- We assign helpers to SrMods so every helper punishment is reviewed and approved. We avoid assigning helpers to SrMods that are friends with the helper.
- Several admins and members of the management team are contactable by players easily, and if anyone has concerns about a particular staff member that can be raised to an admin or management and reviewed. At the end of the day management's bias is making the server successful, so we try and act in a way that encourages that - we have no tolerance for abusive staff.

Overall the staff team is very equip to be fair to all players, and both Jack and I are confident that at this point in time no changes are necessary. Someone suggested in this thread that players appeals should be anonymous, which is frankly absurd. A player's history, both in terms of character and punishments, matters. We have a specific goal for the type of community we aim to be, some people clearly have no interest in that and want to continue to be awful - anonymizing appeals removes our ability to police those people fairly.




  • Poor wording in the rules is an issue. I've seen staff and players alike get confused with rules due to the wording of them. For example the Discord rule regarding advertising is . I've seen both staff and players get confused, thinking it's stating Discord servers can be advertised if Skycade related as well, however the placement of the "Unless Skycade related" part is included in the YouTube videos, stating only YouTube videos are allowed to be advertised if and only if they're Skycade related. I've also seen players get confused often with the rule regarding Optifine and it's Show FPS option. In the thread by @dwayne that details the allowed modifications, and what exceptions are on said mods states Optifine to be an allowed modification, with an exception of . Now reading this, you'd think you're fully able to use the Show FPS option if you'd like provided it's being used for just that, showing FPS. However, apparently you're not allowed to use this function on the Factions gamemode at all.(granted only time staff can see you use that one thing is if you actually use it for finding bases or it's on when you make a report)
Overall I think the rules are very clear, and we've made huge strides in improving this situation over recent months. We've released an in depth factions rules guide and we've added a #rules-updates chat to discord so players can stay informed without having to read the thread through fully every few weeks.
There are limited examples of rules that I would agree could use a reword, and you're free to DM me about specific examples at any time.
People being confused is not something we can fix in most cases, it's usually that the staff member or player has simply misread what is written.


SEE NEXT RESPONSE
 

WelshAlex

Well-known member
Staff member
Manager
WelshAlex
WelshAlex
Manager
Joined
Jul 21, 2018
Messages
230
Likes
1,197
#45
  • Staff who lack the ability to take jokes is a problem on Skycade. While yes, being a staff member is a serious position that you have to be mature for, when a server is comprised of majority kids who came from Jack's channels, a sense of humor should be something you should have. I've seen countless players get punished when having
    banter with friends in Discord or In-Game that's clearly in a joking manner, with no true disrespect intended.
This one is the most absurd. If a player is being punished it's because they've broken a rule, if they haven't broken a rule they should appeal. You cannot expect staff members to somehow, magically, know who is friends with who. They can't read your mind to see intent. And people have different ideas of what is funny, for example I know some people on Skycade think it's funny to use discriminatory language, and that it's just banter to use it amongst their friends. I don't find that funny at all, and even if their intent was not "true disrespect", they'll be punished for breaking the rules.

  • The rules could use a complete overhaul. This relates into the other point regarding unclear rules as well. These rules are outdated with the amount of changes and updates this server has experienced. Hell because of this there's a new channel in the Discord known as #rules-updates which not all members are in. I suggest just overhauling the rules completely, and updating them to fit with the changes of Skycade. Players have been banned countless times for things that aren't in the rules and when they appeal, or discuss it, it then gets added into the rules AFTER the punishment. Which is clearly an issue and can lead to abuse from management to ban users they merely dislike.
Think this one is basically the same as the other rules one. Two points to address, though. The discord chat #rules-updates is a public channel and anyone in the Skycade discord is automatically in the chat. Not being in the discord is not our problem or concern, there is absolutely no platform in which we're able to inform ALL possible players of rules updates. Discord is our most populous 3rd party platform, so that's where the chat is. Any player worried about missing a new rule should join the discord.
Secondly the 'Players have been banned countless times for things that aren't in the rules and when they appeal, or discuss it, it then gets added into the rules AFTER the punishment.' is simply not true. We do not punish people for things that are not in the rules, unless they're not in the rules on a technicality. The rules can't possibly reflect every possible situation, firstly because they'd be far too long, and secondly because we're not able to foresee every single situation. No one is. If you have concerns of management abuse (i.e. you clearly mean me, lol) you can report directly to Jack with evidence. He's accessible on twitter quite easily.



  • Poor communication between the management team and the playerbase is an issue on Skycade. They change functions, remove and add items/functions, and more without asking the community if they feel it'd be a good change. In the two years of being on the Skycade Network that I've had, I only know of one time the management sought the input of players. That was for Season 13 via a Google Form.
Frankly this is also rubbish. First and foremost, we have a staff meeting before almost every major change in which we outline plans to staff and ask for input, and then we change plans based on staff input. You're free to ask staff if we do this. Staff are players. They play the network arguably more than most people in this thread. Them being staff, volunteers, does not change this. And we aim to select staff from a range of backgrounds and gamemodes to get a better sample of the playerbase.
Secondly, I spend a huuuge chunk of my time working on Skycade speaking to players. I'm in game a lot just chatting. I'm on discord a lot just chatting. My DMs are constantly open on the forums, and are usually open on Discord. I've had conversations hours long with countless players. I couldn't tell you how many times in early planning stages I've gone onto gamemodes and specifically asked for ideas, especially Skyblock and Factions. And of course I read every single suggestions thread I'm tagged in, even if I'm not replying.
The idea that we're not communacative with players is so absurd, just because we don't go by majority vote all the time.

At the end of the day, we spend a huge chunk of time speaking to players. But also it is our job and our vision. And we do what we think is best for the network, and we do that by balancing what players are telling us with a whole host of other things like time, cost, ROI and considering the appeal of ideas to players that don't yet play Skycade but that we want to attract.
Your idea of good communication is flawed and unfair, the suggestion that a google form was the only way we take ideas, and I make no apologies when I say that's never going to be how the network is ran while I'm around.



In regards to your final point, toxicity in the playerbase, I agree. But sadly... welcome to Minecraft in 2019. We try our best to mitigate it, both through rules and moderation and feature design/choice (e.g. deciding against f top payouts). We can't do much more than that.


Phew. Reply done. Felt like an essay. Anyway, as I said, you're unlikely to get a further response from me on this particular thread but if anyone would like a discussion about individual points my DMs / other threads are open.

:)
 

Noto1472

Big Boi
Staff member
Administrator
Noto1472
Noto1472
Senior Moderator
Joined
Aug 6, 2018
Messages
108
Likes
97
#46
This one is the most absurd. If a player is being punished it's because they've broken a rule, if they haven't broken a rule they should appeal. You cannot expect staff members to somehow, magically, know who is friends with who. They can't read your mind to see intent. And people have different ideas of what is funny, for example I know some people on Skycade think it's funny to use discriminatory language, and that it's just banter to use it amongst their friends. I don't find that funny at all, and even if their intent was not "true disrespect", they'll be punished for breaking the rules.

Think this one is basically the same as the other rules one. Two points to address, though. The discord chat #rules-updates is a public channel and anyone in the Skycade discord is automatically in the chat. Not being in the discord is not our problem or concern, there is absolutely no platform in which we're able to inform ALL possible players of rules updates. Discord is our most populous 3rd party platform, so that's where the chat is. Any player worried about missing a new rule should join the discord.
Secondly the 'Players have been banned countless times for things that aren't in the rules and when they appeal, or discuss it, it then gets added into the rules AFTER the punishment.' is simply not true. We do not punish people for things that are not in the rules, unless they're not in the rules on a technicality. The rules can't possibly reflect every possible situation, firstly because they'd be far too long, and secondly because we're not able to foresee every single situation. No one is. If you have concerns of management abuse (i.e. you clearly mean me, lol) you can report directly to Jack with evidence. He's accessible on twitter quite easily.



Frankly this is also rubbish. First and foremost, we have a staff meeting before almost every major change in which we outline plans to staff and ask for input, and then we change plans based on staff input. You're free to ask staff if we do this. Staff are players. They play the network arguably more than most people in this thread. Them being staff, volunteers, does not change this. And we aim to select staff from a range of backgrounds and gamemodes to get a better sample of the playerbase.
Secondly, I spend a huuuge chunk of my time working on Skycade speaking to players. I'm in game a lot just chatting. I'm on discord a lot just chatting. My DMs are constantly open on the forums, and are usually open on Discord. I've had conversations hours long with countless players. I couldn't tell you how many times in early planning stages I've gone onto gamemodes and specifically asked for ideas, especially Skyblock and Factions. And of course I read every single suggestions thread I'm tagged in, even if I'm not replying.
The idea that we're not communacative with players is so absurd, just because we don't go by majority vote all the time.

At the end of the day, we spend a huge chunk of time speaking to players. But also it is our job and our vision. And we do what we think is best for the network, and we do that by balancing what players are telling us with a whole host of other things like time, cost, ROI and considering the appeal of ideas to players that don't yet play Skycade but that we want to attract.
Your idea of good communication is flawed and unfair, the suggestion that a google form was the only way we take ideas, and I make no apologies when I say that's never going to be how the network is ran while I'm around.



In regards to your final point, toxicity in the playerbase, I agree. But sadly... welcome to Minecraft in 2019. We try our best to mitigate it, both through rules and moderation and feature design/choice (e.g. deciding against f top payouts). We can't do much more than that.


Phew. Reply done. Felt like an essay. Anyway, as I said, you're unlikely to get a further response from me on this particular thread but if anyone would like a discussion about individual points my DMs / other threads are open.

:)
TLDR- Msg Alex if you want to voice a concern within reason or have a helpful suggestion!
 

Fancy_Dinners_

Wannabe Lawyer
Iron
DamSoFancy
DamSoFancy
Iron
Joined
Aug 12, 2018
Messages
813
Likes
422
#47
@WelshAlex no disrespects but your points make no sense with you just bashing out people without meaning. I’ll type out a more detailed report when I am home but it’s clear you can’t take feedback without getting a temper tantrum.

- Staff bias is human nature??? What so if my college application officer biases to rich people they can not just get charged because it’s “human nature”.

- What other ways to you communicate Steve was just listing an idea and that really didn’t make sense??

- I too have messaged you on discord one times with questions but you have never responded??

- Also what if said player was too young to get discord? It wouldn’t be fair to them to not know the rules??

Sorry about bad format and spelling will do when I get home. No hate Alex ❤️


Ps Shout out to Astro for not just liking WelshAlex’s post because the only people who agreed with it were staff. When this thread should have been about changes to the staff team❤️

-
 
Last edited:

Steve1Killer

Gone
Diamond
Gold
Steve1Killer
Steve1Killer
Diamond
Joined
Aug 8, 2018
Messages
407
Likes
254
#48
Anyway, as I said, you're unlikely to get a further response from me on this particular thread but if anyone would like a discussion about individual points my DMs / other threads are open.
I call bullshit to this. Back on old forums I reported a few issues to you, the biggest of which you blatantly ignored and said every server does it. Guess what came next from your lack of care from me contacting you regarding it? Ranks had to be added to the store and while permissions and keys had to be removed from it because you didn't care. Seems you've already reverted back to the way the store used to be yet kept the ranks... Mojang doesn't take to kindly to having to tell servers off a second time, keep that in mind.

In regards to your final point, toxicity in the playerbase, I agree. But sadly... welcome to Minecraft in 2019. We try our best to mitigate it, both through rules and moderation and feature design/choice (e.g. deciding against f top payouts). We can't do much more than that.
To quote the title "Open letter to the Skycade community, staff team, and management.". This was also addressed to the playerbase in hopes they might attempt to change, unlikely? yes. But like I said to lit, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

Regarding your statement of "Any player worried about missing a new rule should join the discord.": Discord TOS plainly states for users to register they need to be 13 or older. Many members of the Skycade network are kids from Jack's channel who likely cannot register for Discord due to their age.

Otherwise, I see your points, and I can respect them, but there are issues which are blatantly ignored and dismissed by management which are slowly driving this network into the ground. I'm sure you enjoy having this job and if you aim to keep it, these issues need to be taken into account and actually resolved. I'd also like to point out, you mentioned nothing on the staff bias which I find hilarious. Keep up the "good" work :LOL:

EDIT: Forums fucked up, I didn't see the first part of your message my apologies. Here's what I'd like to now add.

Staff bias being human nature is fine, like you said, they're not robots!
However, the procedures in place do not work well enough to prevent blatant issues in the team regarding bias (especially within Admin+).
I'd also like to mention "In future I really recommend you make individual threads for individual points. "... While yes for the replying management, it's difficult to reply to a large multipoint thread like this. However it's less flooding to the forums list to do it in a single thread, it's easier to read as you don't have to go through multiple posts to get the entire point, and while in the larger thread it's easier to reference points and statements made earlier in it.
 
Last edited:

litprism

Well-known member
SkycadeKitpvp
SkycadeKitpvp
default
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
515
Likes
408
#49
Lol welshalex coming from the guy who used to deny that staff were bias. You don’t really do anything to keep it low, it keeps getting worse

Welshalex doesn’t realize that this is many people who agree with this and have their own stories. He just rubs it off as if some stupid player is hating on the network
 
Last edited:

Fancy_Dinners_

Wannabe Lawyer
Iron
DamSoFancy
DamSoFancy
Iron
Joined
Aug 12, 2018
Messages
813
Likes
422
#50
The people making the points are people who have giving loads of money to the server. Alex don’t really care as long as you give money to him. 😉
 

Steve1Killer

Gone
Diamond
Gold
Steve1Killer
Steve1Killer
Diamond
Joined
Aug 8, 2018
Messages
407
Likes
254
#51
Welshalex doesn’t realize that this is many people who agree with this and have their own stories. He just rubs it off as if some stupid player is hating on the network
Considering he of all people should know how large of a minimod I used to be, how much of an avid player I am, and how dedicated I've been to getting staff, this is in no way hate to the network. I mean if the management keeps ignoring it then yea but..
 

pipecek

Active member
pipecek
pipecek
default
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Messages
173
Likes
39
#52
I agree with this you forgot to mention I think that I was muted several times with doing everything others I am 1 YEAR on skycade the first 3 months was full of mutes. I was new and hated by the community so the staff muted me for NOTHING. Just by saying aaaaa which is still allowed and got muted another one who was here longer probs and was liked said wooooooooooosh and he broke the char spam rule not only was my report denied but I was muted again ig for chat flood when all I wanted to do is on creative have a radio so sad that skycade itself thinks its the best but in reality its not good maybe is they asked players and all the stuff you said I would agree as this one of the best servers. Please fix this it is not if not many people might leave including me.
 

pixelflow

r/jacksucksatlife manager
Diamond
pixelflow_
pixelflow_
Diamond
Joined
Aug 17, 2018
Messages
39
Likes
30
#53
Hey @WelshAlex.

You and the management team need to realize something.

How come that the only person to disagree to the points is the man whose job it is to fix them.
The majority of replies to this post are from ranked members. People who have given money to the server, and continue to do so.
If you keep on ignoring the wishes, suggestions, and questions of these members, you will lose players.
But you don't really care, because you still get more and more players joining, and the more players joining = the more people who may purchase items from the store. Basically, as long as Jack keeps promoting Skycade (and he will), the more money you'll make, no matter what.
One-time purchases are one-time purchases, once you have the money, they're no need for you to keep them as a player. It's a cycle that won't stop.

How is it that all the people in this thread agreed to all of this, apart from you?

From a business perspective, you don't care. And you shouldn't. As a business, you're making money.
And people don't look up how good a server is before joining it from a YouTube video. A video doesn't show the issues, flaws and problems that the community face, which is why you won't stop making money.
But you will lose your current playerbase. You already are.
The community that makes Skycade special is falling apart because of things like this. I haven't seen many serious factioners around for this season, and the only people who play are randoms who have been around for like, a season - Factions is basically dead, and it's not even near the end of the season yet.

Many, many people agree with Steve and the community on this one. Maybe it's time to listen to them.
Properly.
And accept it.
 

Dictator_Alideen

Well-known member
Dictator_Alideen
Dictator_Alideen
default
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Messages
626
Likes
382
#54
Hey @WelshAlex.

You and the management team need to realize something.

How come that the only person to disagree to the points is the man whose job it is to fix them.
The majority of replies to this post are from ranked members. People who have given money to the server, and continue to do so.
If you keep on ignoring the wishes, suggestions, and questions of these members, you will lose players.
But you don't really care, because you still get more and more players joining, and the more players joining = the more people who may purchase items from the store. Basically, as long as Jack keeps promoting Skycade (and he will), the more money you'll make, no matter what.
One-time purchases are one-time purchases, once you have the money, they're no need for you to keep them as a player. It's a cycle that won't stop.

How is it that all the people in this thread agreed to all of this, apart from you?

From a business perspective, you don't care. And you shouldn't. As a business, you're making money.
And people don't look up how good a server is before joining it from a YouTube video. A video doesn't show the issues, flaws and problems that the community face, which is why you won't stop making money.
But you will lose your current playerbase. You already are.
The community that makes Skycade special is falling apart because of things like this. I haven't seen many serious factioners around for this season, and the only people who play are randoms who have been around for like, a season - Factions is basically dead, and it's not even near the end of the season yet.

Many, many people agree with Steve and the community on this one. Maybe it's time to listen to them.
Properly.
And accept it.
Basically spend money and do what we want to make Skycade better also very well said +1 (Find it funny how all these big posts that get tons of likes and tons of positive feedback seem to mean nothing to him maybe its time for a change in management like what happened in what season 6)
And if they are as seemingly low on funds as they essentially claim why are they not cutting things such as paying admins, and instead waiting till the server is better and making a lot more money to then start paying them again I am sure if they care about the server they will take a cut.
 
Last edited:

Arkenive

romeo romeo where for art thou romeo
MVP
Diamond
Gold
Arkenive
Arkenive
MVP
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
Messages
171
Likes
98
#55
@WelshAlex Let me just be the devil's advocate, real quick.


First of all it's absolutely human nature to have bias. Staff are not robots, and anyone that is familiar with anyone else will have at least an underlying bias. This applies to any Minecraft server and any relationship ever had, really. What we aim to ensure is that the effects of that bias are as minimal as possible, and we do this in quite a few ways and I think we do it a lot better than a lot of Minecraft servers. Here's some of the things we do to prevent bias:
- If a player appeals a punishment then the staff member that punished said player CANNOT deny the appeal. It is up to a different staff member to review, and to evaluate whether or not the appeal should be accepted. On top of that the fact that any moderator+ can do appeals at any time further makes it likely that the appeal will just be stumbled upon by accident, and not with any sort of intent to be bias at all.
- Appeals are public, and so are punishments. This means any staff member or player is able to view an appeal or punishment and if they are concerned with the appeal/punishment they can raise their concerns to a staff member they trust or management.
- We assign helpers to SrMods so every helper punishment is reviewed and approved. We avoid assigning helpers to SrMods that are friends with the helper.
- Several admins and members of the management team are contactable by players easily, and if anyone has concerns about a particular staff member that can be raised to an admin or management and reviewed. At the end of the day management's bias is making the server successful, so we try and act in a way that encourages that - we have no tolerance for abusive staff.

Overall the staff team is very equip to be fair to all players, and both Jack and I are confident that at this point in time no changes are necessary. Someone suggested in this thread that players appeals should be anonymous, which is frankly absurd. A player's history, both in terms of character and punishments, matters. We have a specific goal for the type of community we aim to be, some people clearly have no interest in that and want to continue to be awful - anonymizing appeals removes our ability to police those people fairly.
Although I agree with your statement when you say staff aren't robots, and every human being is bound to have at least a degree of bias that goes into every decision they make, but, I heavily disagree with you when you say Skycade manages bias really well. On paper, your methods for handling bias seem great but in reality, the amount of bias is still clearly noticeable. Not mentioning any names, but some staff are very biased, for better or for worse, depending on your perspective.

Overall I think the rules are very clear, and we've made huge strides in improving this situation over recent months. We've released an in depth factions rules guide and we've added a #rules-updates chat to discord so players can stay informed without having to read the thread through fully every few weeks.
There are limited examples of rules that I would agree could use a reword, and you're free to DM me about specific examples at any time.
People being confused is not something we can fix in most cases, it's usually that the staff member or player has simply misread what is written.
Skycade has definitely improved with the explanation of its rules, but it is still not enough. Have you realised that not everyone has Discord and can view the #rules-updates channel on Discord? Did that ever cross your mind? Also, just because you've improved slightly doesn't excuse you from the fact that Skycade's rules are very unclear. They are also up for interpretation. A good way to fix this is to give ALL staff ONE SINGULAR DEFINITION for each rule. This limits the amount of interpretation that can happen when defining a rule as it will vary from staff member to staff member. Are you that lazy that you cannot spend a few hours of your time rewriting the rules? I'm sure the community would be happy then and it would be a step into the right direction. You have multiple people writing threads and pointing out flaws in your system and you refuse to acknowledge it. After all, Skycade is perfect, right? It is, if you ignore the multiple bugs, the amount of lag that happens on all servers, delayed updates, ridiculous downtime at times and multiple other issues.

This one is the most absurd. If a player is being punished it's because they've broken a rule, if they haven't broken a rule they should appeal. You cannot expect staff members to somehow, magically, know who is friends with who. They can't read your mind to see intent. And people have different ideas of what is funny, for example I know some people on Skycade think it's funny to use discriminatory language, and that it's just banter to use it amongst their friends. I don't find that funny at all, and even if their intent was not "true disrespect", they'll be punished for breaking the rules.
While I agree with you partly, some jokes are just harmless ones. You need a sense of humour when you're moderating a server full to the brim with kids who are constantly making immature jokes. Sometimes, a little leniency and a sense of humour can save someone from an absurd mute or ban.

Continued below!
 

Arkenive

romeo romeo where for art thou romeo
MVP
Diamond
Gold
Arkenive
Arkenive
MVP
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
Messages
171
Likes
98
#56
Think this one is basically the same as the other rules one. Two points to address, though. The discord chat #rules-updates is a public channel and anyone in the Skycade discord is automatically in the chat. Not being in the discord is not our problem or concern, there is absolutely no platform in which we're able to inform ALL possible players of rules updates. Discord is our most populous 3rd party platform, so that's where the chat is. Any player worried about missing a new rule should join the discord.
Secondly the 'Players have been banned countless times for things that aren't in the rules and when they appeal, or discuss it, it then gets added into the rules AFTER the punishment.' is simply not true. We do not punish people for things that are not in the rules, unless they're not in the rules on a technicality. The rules can't possibly reflect every possible situation, firstly because they'd be far too long, and secondly because we're not able to foresee every single situation. No one is. If you have concerns of management abuse (i.e. you clearly mean me, lol) you can report directly to Jack with evidence. He's accessible on twitter quite easily.
Let me just point out one major thing that you refuse to acknowledge. You. Are. Abusive. What a surprise! The whole community has been screaming at you about it and you just ignore it. An example is provided when you were 'debating' with Dictator_Alideen. Viewable here: https://skycade.net/threads/a-facti...oints-credit-is-given.22482/page-2#post-92366. Your responses were immature and just pure nonsense. Alideen is winning the 'debate' and you call him rude and hellbent on being annoying when he's just stating facts. You even threatened to ban him. But your ego cannot handle it, can it? 2 years of experience doesn't mean shit when you simply do not admit your mistakes and learn from them. It doesn't matter how long you were a manager if you don't learn to take criticism and learn from it. As I've stated in my previous reply to this thread, what is the use of a suggestions thread if none of the suggestions is actually going to be used?

Now before you argue that you have asked for player's opinions in previous factions seasons, note that that was the only time you've done it. Doing it one time doesn't excuse you from years of ignoring player's requests and suggestions just because your ego is too giant. But when you see a decline in your paycheck and the server's earnings because of your huge ego and your constant negligence towards the players. That's the only time you will ever implement any of the community's suggestions, isn't it? But once you finally implement the suggestions and you start to get your standard revenue back, you immediately start ignoring the players again. There's also no guarantee if the updates and suggestions implemented will actually work! Don't even get me started on the number of times you've failed at implementing an update due to many, many bugs.

You also realise that in Discord's Terms of Service, you must be 13 years of age to have a Discord account. Now considering the majority of your player base are young kids that I'm sure aren't 13 based on their maturity, they aren't allowed to get Discord! Meanwhile, your staff ask people violating Discord's TOS to leave as it may 'get the server in trouble'. That's some flawed logic you have there. Now you expect people to follow rules when you give unclear definitions of rules and other rule updates to be posted on a service that is not accessible by everyone? No wonder you have so many punishments on your website. We are hardly the problem, you are. By the way, there is a way for you to inform ALL players of the rules. The forums, the service you're using now! You don't need an account to see the rules page and there's no set age for you to be to have to use it. Meanwhile, you need a Discord account to join the actual Skycade Discord server and see the contents of #rules-updates.

Frankly this is also rubbish. First and foremost, we have a staff meeting before almost every major change in which we outline plans to staff and ask for input, and then we change plans based on staff input. You're free to ask staff if we do this. Staff are players. They play the network arguably more than most people in this thread. Them being staff, volunteers, does not change this. And we aim to select staff from a range of backgrounds and gamemodes to get a better sample of the playerbase.
Secondly, I spend a huuuge chunk of my time working on Skycade speaking to players. I'm in game a lot just chatting. I'm on discord a lot just chatting. My DMs are constantly open on the forums, and are usually open on Discord. I've had conversations hours long with countless players. I couldn't tell you how many times in early planning stages I've gone onto gamemodes and specifically asked for ideas, especially Skyblock and Factions. And of course I read every single suggestions thread I'm tagged in, even if I'm not replying.
The idea that we're not communacative with players is so absurd, just because we don't go by majority vote all the time.

At the end of the day, we spend a huge chunk of time speaking to players. But also it is our job and our vision. And we do what we think is best for the network, and we do that by balancing what players are telling us with a whole host of other things like time, cost, ROI and considering the appeal of ideas to players that don't yet play Skycade but that we want to attract.
Your idea of good communication is flawed and unfair, the suggestion that a google form was the only way we take ideas, and I make no apologies when I say that's never going to be how the network is ran while I'm around.
Some staff are genuinely good people and great mods, although some are utter shit, not pointing any fingers. You also say that a google form was the only way you take ideas, and you make no apologies when you say that's never going to be how the network is ran while you're around. That's exactly the damned problem. You take no suggestions on how to gain more input from players and etc. When someone points out a flaw in your system and suggests a solution, you refuse to acknowledge it and act like a baby having a tantrum. Obviously, your ego is just too large to admit it, but guess what? Your system is flawed. Learn to take criticism as some of the criticism are actual constructive ones that will benefit you a whole great deal.

Alex, in the end, you need to learn to listen to your players more. You are one of the very few people that are playing devil's advocate for this thread. I wonder why that is. You refuse to take criticism, even when it's as constructive as this. You say that factions is one of the most ungrateful servers on Skycade. While that is true, they have every right to be ungrateful. You make poor decisions as manager, regardless of your 2-year experience. I could learn to be a wood-worker for 2 years but unless I listen to someone that will criticise and teach me, I will never learn how I can do the task well and improve. I could manage Skycade, but could I do it well? No. But if someone teaches me, and I learn from them, I'm sure I can learn how to be a great manager over time.

Note: I was writing this at 11 pm. Don't bash me for some spelling and grammatical errors, please.
 
Last edited:

iG0

Active member
Diamond
Iron
unblatant
unblatant
Diamond
Joined
Aug 8, 2018
Messages
149
Likes
86
#57
Dear Skycade,

I'm writing this open letter on behalf of many users of this network, some staff, and some ex-players. This letter is in no way meant to be bashful of the network and instead to draw attention to problems that have gone ignored for a while. This thread is not simply a suggestion as I'm aiming for it to create a civil discussion regarding these problems, and the network in and of itself.

  • Staff Bias: Now this gets denied as the case often but sadly it's common to see occur. Staff who dislike certain players have tenancies to deny or accept things where as others with less experience with said player and just baseline info on history and behavior would tend to do something else. You've got players trying to become friends with staff so they can have that bias help them even. BirthtoBurial or James, a former SrMod who recently got demoted states . Now this clearly shows there is an issue with staff bias on the network, and I doubt it will stop anytime soon. Sadly I'm unable to think of a solution apart from set a standard punishment guidelines like already in place and actually ensure staff follow that guide and don't show bias when executing punishments.


  • Poor wording in the rules is an issue. I've seen staff and players alike get confused with rules due to the wording of them. For example the Discord rule regarding advertising is . I've seen both staff and players get confused, thinking it's stating Discord servers can be advertised if Skycade related as well, however the placement of the "Unless Skycade related" part is included in the YouTube videos, stating only YouTube videos are allowed to be advertised if and only if they're Skycade related. I've also seen players get confused often with the rule regarding Optifine and it's Show FPS option. In the thread by @dwayne that details the allowed modifications, and what exceptions are on said mods states Optifine to be an allowed modification, with an exception of . Now reading this, you'd think you're fully able to use the Show FPS option if you'd like provided it's being used for just that, showing FPS. However, apparently you're not allowed to use this function on the Factions gamemode at all.(granted only time staff can see you use that one thing is if you actually use it for finding bases or it's on when you make a report)


  • Staff who lack the ability to take jokes is a problem on Skycade. While yes, being a staff member is a serious position that you have to be mature for, when a server is comprised of majority kids who came from Jack's channels, a sense of humor should be something you should have. I've seen countless players get punished when having
    banter with friends in Discord or In-Game that's clearly in a joking manner, with no true disrespect intended.

  • The rules could use a complete overhaul. This relates into the other point regarding unclear rules as well. These rules are outdated with the amount of changes and updates this server has experienced. Hell because of this there's a new channel in the Discord known as #rules-updates which not all members are in. I suggest just overhauling the rules completely, and updating them to fit with the changes of Skycade. Players have been banned countless times for things that aren't in the rules and when they appeal, or discuss it, it then gets added into the rules AFTER the punishment. Which is clearly an issue and can lead to abuse from management to ban users they merely dislike.
  • Poor communication between the management team and the playerbase is an issue on Skycade. They change functions, remove and add items/functions, and more without asking the community if they feel it'd be a good change. In the two years of being on the Skycade Network that I've had, I only know of one time the management sought the input of players. That was for Season 13 via a Google Form.
  • Toxicity in the playerbase, sadly this is extremely common, and staff really can't solve this apart from punishing those who are in violation of rules when they're toxic. However sadly, staff bias as mentioned before gets plugged into this, and players can get away with it or get extremely harsh punishments for it.

Now as I said originally, this thread is in no way meant to be bashful to the network, and is instead meant to draw attention to these issues being ignored, to get more focus on these, and to get the community working together to rally the management to fix these issues. There are many issues I have not specified here, and if you'd like to, please bring them up in the comments and I'll see about adding them. Please however keep the replies civil so to avoid this thread being locked.

Sincerely,
Steve1Killer.

EDIT: I'd like to include the fact, I've written an email similar to this in the past, with help from @Arkenive, @Xechro, James/Eva and @pixelflow. Said email was sent to Jack directly with no luck, so I felt releasing a longer, more in-depth thread as an open letter to the community would be a useful method, as this way it can also spark conversation, debates, and opinions being pitched in to help solve the issues that are slowly bringing this network down.
I didn't read this cuz it's too long but all I say is demote Bcof and ItzNoah they trash staff
 

pipecek

Active member
pipecek
pipecek
default
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Messages
173
Likes
39
#58
This one is the most absurd. If a player is being punished it's because they've broken a rule, if they haven't broken a rule they should appeal. You cannot expect staff members to somehow, magically, know who is friends with who. They can't read your mind to see intent. And people have different ideas of what is funny, for example I know some people on Skycade think it's funny to use discriminatory language, and that it's just banter to use it amongst their friends. I don't find that funny at all, and even if their intent was not "true disrespect", they'll be punished for breaking the rules.

Think this one is basically the same as the other rules one. Two points to address, though. The discord chat #rules-updates is a public channel and anyone in the Skycade discord is automatically in the chat. Not being in the discord is not our problem or concern, there is absolutely no platform in which we're able to inform ALL possible players of rules updates. Discord is our most populous 3rd party platform, so that's where the chat is. Any player worried about missing a new rule should join the discord.
Secondly the 'Players have been banned countless times for things that aren't in the rules and when they appeal, or discuss it, it then gets added into the rules AFTER the punishment.' is simply not true. We do not punish people for things that are not in the rules, unless they're not in the rules on a technicality. The rules can't possibly reflect every possible situation, firstly because they'd be far too long, and secondly because we're not able to foresee every single situation. No one is. If you have concerns of management abuse (i.e. you clearly mean me, lol) you can report directly to Jack with evidence. He's accessible on twitter quite easily.



Frankly this is also rubbish. First and foremost, we have a staff meeting before almost every major change in which we outline plans to staff and ask for input, and then we change plans based on staff input. You're free to ask staff if we do this. Staff are players. They play the network arguably more than most people in this thread. Them being staff, volunteers, does not change this. And we aim to select staff from a range of backgrounds and gamemodes to get a better sample of the playerbase.
Secondly, I spend a huuuge chunk of my time working on Skycade speaking to players. I'm in game a lot just chatting. I'm on discord a lot just chatting. My DMs are constantly open on the forums, and are usually open on Discord. I've had conversations hours long with countless players. I couldn't tell you how many times in early planning stages I've gone onto gamemodes and specifically asked for ideas, especially Skyblock and Factions. And of course I read every single suggestions thread I'm tagged in, even if I'm not replying.
The idea that we're not communacative with players is so absurd, just because we don't go by majority vote all the time.

At the end of the day, we spend a huge chunk of time speaking to players. But also it is our job and our vision. And we do what we think is best for the network, and we do that by balancing what players are telling us with a whole host of other things like time, cost, ROI and considering the appeal of ideas to players that don't yet play Skycade but that we want to attract.
Your idea of good communication is flawed and unfair, the suggestion that a google form was the only way we take ideas, and I make no apologies when I say that's never going to be how the network is ran while I'm around.



In regards to your final point, toxicity in the playerbase, I agree. But sadly... welcome to Minecraft in 2019. We try our best to mitigate it, both through rules and moderation and feature design/choice (e.g. deciding against f top payouts). We can't do much more than that.


Phew. Reply done. Felt like an essay. Anyway, as I said, you're unlikely to get a further response from me on this particular thread but if anyone would like a discussion about individual points my DMs / other threads are open.

:)
You only care about yourself you selfish staff member you should get demoted you dont listen to us and you dont care about us you can ban me if you want I am telling the truth 89% of the servers I play on (Skycade being one of them) doesnt have people who swear so you lied AGAIN. Oh yeah Idc if you mute me if nothing changes I am going to leave skycade and tell it to all the servers including Hypixel,Hive,Mccentrall and more about you and your selfish manners on this corrupted server. I hope you get my point Alex carre.
 
Last edited:

litprism

Well-known member
SkycadeKitpvp
SkycadeKitpvp
default
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
515
Likes
408
#59
You only care about yourself you selfish staff member you should get demoted you dont listen to us and you dont care about us you can ban me if you want I am telling the truth 89% of the servers I play on (Skycade being one of them) doesnt have people who swear so you lied AGAIN. Oh yeah Idc if you mute me if nothing changes I am going to leave skycade and tell it to all the servers including Hypixel,Hive,Mccentrall and more about you and your selfish manners on this corrupted server. I hope you get my point Alex carre.
welshalex roast
 
Last edited:

AidenLikesPancakes

Banned lol
Diamond
Iron
AidenLikePanckes
AidenLikePanckes
Diamond
Joined
Aug 20, 2018
Messages
628
Likes
328
#60
You only care about yourself you selfish staff member you should get demoted you dont listen to us and you dont care about us you can ban me if you want I am telling the truth 89% of the servers I play on (Skycade being one of them) doesnt have people who swear so you lied AGAIN. Oh yeah Idc if you mute me if nothing changes I am going to leave skycade and tell it to all the servers including Hypixel,Hive,Mccentrall and more about you and your selfish manners on this corrupted server. I hope you get my point Alex carre.
i just like how this man uses welsh alex's full name
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top