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Skyblock Cactus Change

WelshAlex

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#1
Hi, as lots of you know we're slowly implementing changes to nerf and then eventually remove cactus as a profit making tool. We decided to do this because we could tell that Cactus was really OP as a profit making tool, and was also the primary cause of lag.

You've had LOTS of questions and LOTS of complaints about this, so here's some answers:

If you're worried about lag, why are you letting us use spawners? Spawners cause more lag than cactus!!

This isn't true. When people build cactus farms that are HUGE the server has to register each time a cactus block grows and breaks.
On a full size cactus farm there is 380,000+ cacti. So let's imagine at any given time there's 10 people AFKing their full size cactus farms, which is a low estimation. That's 3,800,000 cactus that can grow at any time and this causes immense pressure on the server to register each block that's breaking. Keep in mind this is a low estimation.

Spawners on the other hand are much more focused, and an island won't have 380,000 of them.

Why didn't you change it before the season started?

Frankly put, we don't have a magic ball that shows us the future. This means we can't foresee everything. You could argue we should've seen this coming but regardless we didn't, and we'd rather fix it than let it break the economy.

Why didn't you fix it in a different way?

We pretty much had 3 choices: a. Let the economy get worse and worse, and not tackle the lag. b. Change the value of cactus and do another reset or c. Gradually change the price and as a result the economy just 8 days into what is likely to be a 120+ day season.

We didn't and still don't see a 4th choice, and we think option C was our best choice. So we made it.

What're you changing aside from this?


We're looking at improving the efficiency of other crops such as netherwart and sugarcane to allow players a way onto baltop still.
Also we'll be implementing new features such as an auto harvest hoe that when you harvest with it the items can automatically be deposited into a chest, similar to how a crop hopper works.
As we intended the season is aimed at being primarily a spawner based season so we're also looking at ways to make spawners more accessible for players just starting out!



As always we're open to suggestions, so let us know below what you want us to do below (and anyone that says Hurr Durr don't nerf cactus gets a forums warning point)
 

DrJacoby12

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#2
First get rext
what about ways for noobs to get money?
 

JackThePigeon

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#3
On the topic of the auto harvest hoe, is it possible to have the crop hoppers fixed so they auto sell the sugarcane? I’ve noticed they haven’t been selling recently( or at all)
 

SnowredWolf

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#4
I do understand the needed change, but what do you plan on doing with the existing cactus farms on the server? You mention that cactus will be removed as a profit making tool/crop, does this mean cactus will be removed completely and hereby also existing farms?

Even though I'm one of the many people who built quite big cactus farms, I'm in full support of this change as it was quite frankly destroying the server economy in such an early stage and according to you also lagging the server.
 

dapetsta

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#5
EPIC
 

EatMyPoopyTarts

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#6
oof
 

BlackHydras

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#7
You should, indeed, have seen this coming. It's not about having a magic ball or not. It was the only option for the playerbase to get decent money without having to buy lunar keys and hope for cow spawners or to spend 8 hours breaking sugar canes by hand.

Here's a challenge for you: Try and play legit for 2 weeks and try to unlock blazes for yourself. I'd tell you to get to IG's, but I'll get to this point next.

As for the economy, it's already ruined, wouldn't you say? Top 5-10% of the server have nearly, if not all, spawners unlocked. And I'm speaking against myself, seeing that all we had left to unlock is IG. The other 90-95% of the server, if they can't use cactus, they'll either turn to massive sugar canes to harvest by hand (patience will last around 1-2 days before they quit, that's my guess) or they won't reach IG's by the end of the season anyways.

I'm fine with you worldediting the farms out, but only AFTER you fix the economy, or at least push for a fix in some of the item prices in the shop, because this isn't working for new players and people won't farm sugar by hand until they unlock spawners and buy their first 10-15.
 

MomTookMyVape

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#8
Hello WelshAlex, I would like to relay my suggestions to you.

1) Mob Stacking
- This would reduce a bit of the lag presented on Skyblock, and I feel as there would be nothing lost by having it implemented.

2) Increase the animal breeding limit (currently at 30)
- This would encourage starter players to breed more animals, and sell the animal drops at the shop.

3) Adjust the overall shop prices.
- To buy one stack of Iron Ingots, It will take you about $20k, but to sell one stack of Iron Ingots, you'll only receive $1k.

4) Implement other blocks to the shop that we could sell.
- Such as feathers. This would encourage players to find other ways to make money instead of relying on profit shops. This idea alongside suggestion #2.

5) Increase the selling price of general farming items.
- To sell one wheat or one carrot, IT IS only $3. The tick rate on Skyblock is horrible, so it takes a long time to grow any farming stuff in general.

6) Tweak the "/challenges" command.
- For my first challenge, I was awarded only $2 for returning a stack of wheat or something similar to that. (might of been a bug, but unsure - also being told this was changed)

7) Reduce Spawner Prices
- The shop prices for the spawners are heavily overpriced, and most of the spawners bought on Skyblock are off other users from /ah. OPINION: I suggest lowering the price of them a tiny bit, maybe Blaze Spawner staying at $400k instead of $498k.

8) Fix /vote (general command)
- Fix the last link in the Vote Link 4, so players will be able to squeeze in one more vote.

9) Clarify the Skyblock rules more.
- I'm being told this Redstone machine isn't allowed, this one is, etc etc. Clarify and explain what isn't allowed and what is allowed on Skyblock.

10) Fix the "24 hour" /fly
- By voting, you are told that you will be able to fly for 24 hours, but this is not the case most of the time.

11) Reduce the Spawner Merchant prices.
- It is awfully difficult to make money at times, and fun fact: It takes $20m just to unlock the IG spawner and $2m to buy one IG spawner.
 
Last edited:

MooseandOliver

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#9
Hey Alex,
here are my thoughts, yesterday I was really mad about the cactus prices being cut today I am trying to be more thoughtful about it so here goes

1. Please don't get cactus down to 0 or nonsellable, but maybe instead implement a farm size limit and keep the 1$ price, people wont afk for a farm that wont make money and if you keep it so your farm cant have more then 1000 cacti that kills the desire to afk and even if you do the lag is way down
2. Fix spawner prices please Even with me selling 4 lunar armor sets a trench book (sells for 1 mill) and using profit farms for a week nonstop (i don't work at the moment) I can't afford a blaze spawner in fact I am 800,000$ away from having a blaze spawner and theirs no chance of me getting a zombie with or without a profit shop
3.Stack mobs, mostly because I think its an awesome and useful thing that might make people happy
4. Find a way to repay those with huge cactus farms someone did the math to find out how much cactus farms are worth in regards to making them and a lot of the people who have cactus farms are putting their money immediately back into making them bigger so I think it would be a good idea to let them sell their stuff back to the shop at cost, even if you ignore the cactus cost they should be given the cost of the fences the sand and the stone/wood blocks the sand stands on, especially if their whole island is cactus farms they will need some profit to build a new island up even if you make it a set price, you delete their entire cactus island they get 1 million or they get a zombie spawner unlocked in turn for the deletion, something to help them recoup their loses
5 1 keyall for the entire server at the busiest time, as the manager you should know or be able to find out when the busiest time is on the server and be able to do one, the reason being the items you get from a lunar chest sell for a lot of $$$ it would help people who are at lvl 0 have something to make a small amount of money to build their island
 

9IB

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#10
I think you explained alot in this forum post and cleared up some things along the way. I am excited for the future of skyblock. I still don't like the idea of removing cactus but i understand your decision. Oh and btw guys don't hate on alex he is just trying to make the server more fun and everything is not his foult.
 

BlackHydras

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#11
4. Find a way to repay those with huge cactus farms someone did the math to find out how much cactus farms are worth in regards to making them[...]
That would've been @Gandalf and myself for our own farm. It is 3/4 done, but it shows how to do the math on how much it was spent per farm. Takes like 2 minutes to see per farm with an excel file with 5-6 columns and 5-6 lines and the //distr command from worldedit.
 

TheK1ttyCrusher

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#12
Hello WelshAlex, I would like to relay my suggestions to you.

1) Mob Stacking
- This would reduce a bit of the lag presented on Skyblock, and I feel as there would be nothing lost by having it implemented.

2) Increase the animal breeding limit (currently at 30)
- This would encourage starter players to breed more animals, and sell the animal drops at the shop.

3) Adjust the overall shop prices.
- To buy one stack of Iron Ingots, It will take you about $20k, but to sell one stack of Iron Ingots, you'll only receive $1k.

4) Implement other blocks to the shop that we could sell.
- Such as feathers. This would encourage players to find other ways to make money instead of relying on profit shops. This idea alongside suggestion #2.

5) Increase the selling price of general farming items.
- To sell one cooked beef, IT IS only $1.

6) Tweak the "/challenges" command.
- For my first challenge, I was awarded only $2 for returning a stack of wheat or something similar to that.
1) Mob Stacking
I don't personally think this is the best idea. With something like blaze maybe, but something like skeleton or creeper, which people tend to have fall, will just stack leaving a bunch at the bottom they have to manually kill. Even with blaze I sometimes have trouble when I hit them unless its insta-kill as they occasionally fly upwards a bit.

2) Animal Breeding
Perhaps if animals excluding the cow (has a spawner) have much increased sell profits, players just starting out could at least have a small income, but late game constantly farming them could become very tedious and time consuming.

3) Adjusting shop prices
I do agree shop prices need a tad of work. In relation to #2, you cannot sell wool, and it is bought at a price of $45 - I don't know why it is so much when some other blocks of similar nature (terracotta, clay, etc.) go for under $10 a block. Iron being over $300 per ingot is also a little disheartening as a new player. When I just started we ran out of iron at our island and wasted a good sum of money on iron (at the time).

4) Implementing other items to shop
This is something I could go for. Even just not implementing the item as a whole, but adding a sell option to some items you can only buy (wool, etc.).

5) Increase selling prices
I think this fits into #3. (also cooked beef is $5 per not $1)

6) Challenges have been altered already

As for an option WelshAlex listed - the autoharvest hoe - I think it is a great idea, but im concerned on how it will be obtained. As a purchasable item wouldn't be a bad idea. Using them outback credits is a worse idea in my opinion as all I ever see is people either invis killing other nakeds or some armored guy with decent pvp skills keeping arena clear. The best option I think is through vote crates. They cannot be bought, everyone has a pretty fair chance, and it encourages server support via the voting.

On a side(ish) note, what if there was to be a balance limit of something like 25m? I have seen limits on other servers (specifically factions) in which people would reach the limit and could not pass it and thus if they were raided they couldn't just buy back everything. They would have to work back up some ways, granted they still have lots of money, but i'm sure much of their progress could have been lost. I know its a skyblock server, but a balance limit would perhaps lessen the amount of people who are going balls to the walls in an effort to be the one on the server with the most money. Once you have that money there is no real reason to expand unless you want it to replenish faster for some reason.
 
Last edited:

MooseandOliver

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#13
That would've been @Gandalf and myself for our own farm. It is 3/4 done, but it shows how to do the math on how much it was spent per farm. Takes like 2 minutes to see per farm with an excel file with 5-6 columns and 5-6 lines and the //distr command from worldedit.
Yes sorry I didnt look you up and give you credit, I appreciate you doing the math for everyone
 

smila001

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#14
That would've been @Gandalf and myself for our own farm. It is 3/4 done, but it shows how to do the math on how much it was spent per farm. Takes like 2 minutes to see per farm with an excel file with 5-6 columns and 5-6 lines and the //distr command from worldedit.
I'm definitely excited at the thought that maybe when I break blocks my whole game doesn't lag, however, it would hurt to not get anything back for the cactus farm I've built. It's also way too much work to dismantle them and I have a smallish one. Some sort of compensation would definitely help.
 

BlackHydras

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#15
I'm definitely excited at the thought that maybe when I break blocks my whole game doesn't lag, however, it would hurt to not get anything back for the cactus farm I've built. It's also way too much work to dismantle them and I have a smallish one. Some sort of compensation would definitely help.
In all honesty, idc if they delete the farm even if they dont pay anybody. It already paid for itself, my only issue is that new players will have such a rough start it's not even funny.

I already unlocked most spawners and have them running already. I could afk at an xp farm, sell custom enchants, go mining, there's plenty out there to do once you get past the early stage. But newer players will just suffer if they wanna play skyblock here now. Doing that for them, not for me at this point.
 

Kwuffin

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#16
I don't blame Alex for this decision. And I sortof saw this coming since the 'non-redstone rule' was introduced, because I knew that people were going to make huge cactus farms since that's kindof the only non-spawner, non-redstone and efficient AFK farm you can make
And I would frankly like a more spawner-based skyblock.
I got a suggestion to stack mobs to decrease the lag even more.
 

litprism

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#17
Without cactus farming it’s almost impossible to unlock any other spawners besides cows. If you nerf cactus you need to lower the prices to unlock spawners. Also you should of foreseen this coming as you’ve made the same mistake on factions of making them too op, so there’s no excuse.
 

Antoderi

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#18
Hi, as lots of you know we're slowly implementing changes to nerf and then eventually remove cactus as a profit making tool. We decided to do this because we could tell that Cactus was really OP as a profit making tool, and was also the primary cause of lag.

You've had LOTS of questions and LOTS of complaints about this, so here's some answers:

If you're worried about lag, why are you letting us use spawners? Spawners cause more lag than cactus!!

This isn't true. When people build cactus farms that are HUGE the server has to register each time a cactus block grows and breaks.
On a full size cactus farm there is 380,000+ cacti. So let's imagine at any given time there's 10 people AFKing their full size cactus farms, which is a low estimation. That's 3,800,000 cactus that can grow at any time and this causes immense pressure on the server to register each block that's breaking. Keep in mind this is a low estimation.

Spawners on the other hand are much more focused, and an island won't have 380,000 of them.

Why didn't you change it before the season started?

Frankly put, we don't have a magic ball that shows us the future. This means we can't foresee everything. You could argue we should've seen this coming but regardless we didn't, and we'd rather fix it than let it break the economy.

Why didn't you fix it in a different way?

We pretty much had 3 choices: a. Let the economy get worse and worse, and not tackle the lag. b. Change the value of cactus and do another reset or c. Gradually change the price and as a result the economy just 8 days into what is likely to be a 120+ day season.

We didn't and still don't see a 4th choice, and we think option C was our best choice. So we made it.

What're you changing aside from this?
\
We're looking at improving the efficiency of other crops such as netherwart and sugarcane to allow players a way onto baltop still.
Also we'll be implementing new features such as an auto harvest hoe that when you harvest with it the items can automatically be deposited into a chest, similar to how a crop hopper works.
As we intended the season is aimed at being primarily a spawner based season so we're also looking at ways to make spawners more accessible for players just starting out!



As always we're open to suggestions, so let us know below what you want us to do below (and anyone that says Hurr Durr don't nerf cactus gets a forums warning point)
Before I start off, I wanted to point out: This is not a nerf, you are completely removing cactus as a method of profit. I understand the reasons for this, but reading the entire thing, NOTHING HERE SAYS 'COMPENSATION'. All we're getting is an auto harvest hoe and better efficiency for other crops. "oh cool! a hoe that puts things into a chest" AS IF putting things in a chest is difficult. I say that the hoe should also replant the the crop. The hoe is ABSOLUTELY useless. Just use crop hoppers, it literally states in the sentence. "similar to how a crop hopper works"

I have more concerns too.
1. Are we getting any sort of compensation for the time and money spent on our cactus farms?
2. How will people destroy their cactus farms? You should see /pwarp share, that farm is stupidly enormous and there is no way he will be able to destroy it fully. It's not like there is a schematica for destroying large amounts of blocks quickly.
This is very unorganized, there are many unhappy people and you don't have solutions to most of our problems. You should have made this change when you were actually ready, because it seems like this was just put together in a rush.
 

GothicGamer2012

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#19
1) Mob Stacking
I don't personally think this is the best idea. With something like blaze maybe, but something like skeleton or creeper, which people tend to have fall, will just stack leaving a bunch at the bottom they have to manually kill. Even with blaze I sometimes have trouble when I hit them unless its insta-kill as they occasionally fly upwards a bit.
Actually I know of a way to counter that exact problem. I used it on a previous server that also had mob stacking and it was a skeleton farm.

Have the mobs drop at high/half health so you can hit them and bring them down to low health (don't kill them), have a lever connected to sticky pistons that push a block into the mob stack to do suffocation damage (after you hit them), you need to suffocate them to death within a few seconds after hitting them. The entire stack of mobs should die at once giving you all the xp as long as they die within the time-frame. I believe it's about 2-4 seconds after you hit, if you're later than this they will still die at the same time but you wont get xp. The looting effect on a sword will effect every mob in the stack as if you killed them all manually if you attacked with that weapon.
Back then I had about 200-250 skeletons in a stack, did this and loot exploded in my face with looting 3.
I was able to fully automate this minus xp with creepers, I can't redstone well so I set tripwires on top of hoppers and had those connected to pistons. Creeper fell onto the tripwire the piston would activate and suffocate the entire stack automatically. With crop hoppers the hoppers under the farm would be unnecessary anyway.

Fall damage will not kill the mob stack, neither will fire, it has to be suffocation damage. If the first mob on the stack dies the next one will be at full health, keep that in mind.

I'm not 100% sure this will work on skycade but if mob stacking does get implemented, give it a go.
 

MACnCHEESEfan

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#20
Hi, as lots of you know we're slowly implementing changes to nerf and then eventually remove cactus as a profit making tool. We decided to do this because we could tell that Cactus was really OP as a profit making tool, and was also the primary cause of lag.

Why didn't you change it before the season started?

Frankly put, we don't have a magic ball that shows us the future. This means we can't foresee everything. You could argue we should've seen this coming but regardless we didn't, and we'd rather fix it than let it break the economy.

Why didn't you fix it in a different way?

We pretty much had 3 choices: a. Let the economy get worse and worse, and not tackle the lag. b. Change the value of cactus and do another reset or c. Gradually change the price and as a result the economy just 8 days into what is likely to be a 120+ day season.

We didn't and still don't see a 4th choice, and we think option C was our best choice. So we made it.

What're you changing aside from this?

We're looking at improving the efficiency of other crops such as netherwart and sugarcane to allow players a way onto baltop still.
Also we'll be implementing new features such as an auto harvest hoe that when you harvest with it the items can automatically be deposited into a chest, similar to how a crop hopper works.
As we intended the season is aimed at being primarily a spawner based season so we're also looking at ways to make spawners more accessible for players just starting out!
Reading this made me feel just a bit better about the nerf, I still have some things to say:

1. About the whole 8-Ball thing, you should of seen this coming. Wasn't these huge cactus farms always been the case like last season? I don't remember if crop hoppers were added last season or this season but it's a POWERFUL tool. Instead of having to manually collect it yourself (it applies to farms that don't use water), you can just use a crophopper! Harvesting manually takes longer but can generate less lag if it's something like row by row instead of 30 random pieces of cactus falling to the ground then getting teleported to a hopper.

2. You should probably do solution B, its only been 2 weeks and people are already millions ahead of people with their huge cactus. They're gonna prob be on everyday until the change comes through so they're gonna keep earning more and more money until that change implants.

3. Have you gone through the threads and replies to find solutions and consider them? Some are pretty good ideas!

4. Alright at least sugarcane or netherwart farms won't be nerfed, you can make some large farms with them but it isn't as crazy as these giant cactus farms. (and I believe sugarcane and netherwart is more profitable!) Less Space + Less Lag + More Profit is good.

5. At least you're making the spawners more acessible to newer people! The lower prices better be worth it!

6. The auto farming hoe is pretty geinus, I think it will work well with sugarcane, cactus farms, etc.

That's all I have to say for this message. Pretty alright to say the least.

(PS: For everyone saying, "oh were gonna lose players oh were gonna get driven way!")
The same story happens almost every time: Update releases, everyone gets mad, everyone adapts to it, everything goes back to normal.

-macncheesefan
 
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