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Skycade's Ban System Flaw

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Arkenive

Active member
MVP
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milabo
milabo
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The staff team needs ONE singular definition for a rule. One staff member cannot have a view into a rule that is different to another staff member's opinion. This just leads to unjust bans. As this is Skycade, some of them actually stay banned due to a misunderstanding that absolutely wasn't their fault. You look at heapes' ban, he 'insided' us an ally and a specific staff member said it wasn't punishable. A few months later, he does it again. But this time, he gets banned. As scummy as this is, it is unfair. We need a single definition for ALL staff to follow. This will reduce the amount of utterly ridiculous ban reasons by a whole lot.

Well, that was my little suggestion incorporated into this thread that I think should also be added. All in all, this post reflects my views quite well besides the amount of mods needed to overrule another mod. The amount of bias that can occur is ridiculous and trust me, this is the nicest, possible way I can say this. Something needs to change and quick.
 

TheFoodie

nothing much
Diamond
Food1e
Food1e
Diamond
The staff team needs ONE singular definition for a rule. One staff member cannot have a view into a rule that is different to another staff member's opinion. This just leads to unjust bans. As this is Skycade, some of them actually stay banned due to a misunderstanding that absolutely wasn't their fault. You look at heapes' ban, he 'insided' us an ally and a specific staff member said it wasn't punishable. A few months later, he does it again. But this time, he gets banned. As scummy as this is, it is unfair. We need a single definition for ALL staff to follow. This will reduce the amount of utterly ridiculous ban reasons by a whole lot.

Well, that was my little suggestion incorporated into this thread that I think should also be added. All in all, this post reflects my views quite well besides the amount of mods needed to overrule another mod. The amount of bias that can occur is ridiculous and trust me, this is the nicest, possible way I can say this. Something needs to change and quick.
Yeah I say if someone was told they can do something, but then get banned for it by someone else, should they be able to provide proof that another staff member told them it's fine, they're let off with a warning and the rule is fully defined to everyone.
 

AidenLikesPancakes

bigman
Diamond
Iron
what_the_dogdoin
what_the_dogdoin
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I agree with you completely. It is completely flawed and unfair to the banned person. Your suggestion is good, hope it happens
 

Centurion

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You look at Arkenive's ban. He got banned for a fake overlay. He shows erhip that overlay. Erhip doesn't ban him cause he knows its false. But then he gets banned by a different staff. Even though erhip knows it's false. So this certain staff just went over another staff's opinion. But when it's the other way around, and erhip tries to explain that it was fake cause Arkenive showed it to him. Then he can't go over that staff's decision. That my friends, is unacceptable.
This is exactly why we tell people not to rename their togglesneak etc. Message me on Discord with the details and I'll have a look.

So you're probably thinking, alright alright. That's just one time. You look at Hugo and OA. Both post the same exact meme. One gets a ban and then unban and one gets banned. Hugo got unbanned because apparently he was warned. But guys, it's the same meme. Why doesn't the other guy get unbanned and just get warned like Hugo? Because there are 2 different staff with different opinions. And act different ways to different people.
Your whole post is about how staff can't change others staff's decisions but this is an example of that happening. Idk if you know what went on behind the scenes but the bans were fixed because a number of staff felt that the bans were wrong.

4 mods = can over rule 1 mods decision
2 srmods = can over rule 1 mods decision
2 admins = can over rule 1 srmods decision
Staff manager = over rule all
I have a question about this, what if 2 mods agrees with a decision? Does that mean you now need 8 mods to overrule it?

Sorry if anything I said has been mentioned already, I've only had time to read through a couple of replies.

Yeah I say if someone was told they can do something, but then get banned for it by someone else, should they be able to provide proof that another staff member told them it's fine, they're let off with a warning and the rule is fully defined to everyone.
This is something that already happens. If another staff member says it's fine to do something and then you do it, you can be pardoned from your punishment. However, once you are aware that it is against the rules you can then be banned if you continue to do it.

Message me if something like this happens and I can get it sorted.
 

TheFoodie

nothing much
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Food1e
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This is exactly why we tell people not to rename their togglesneak etc. Message me on Discord with the details and I'll have a look.


Your whole post is about how staff can't change others staff's decisions but this is an example of that happening. Idk if you know what went on behind the scenes but the bans were fixed because a number of staff felt that the bans were wrong.


I have a question about this, what if 2 mods agrees with a decision? Does that mean you now need 8 mods to overrule it?

Sorry if anything I said has been mentioned already, I've only had time to read through a couple of replies.


This is something that already happens. If another staff member says it's fine to do something and then you do it, you can be pardoned from your punishment. However, once you are aware that it is against the rules you can then be banned if you continue to do it.

Message me if something like this happens and I can get it sorted.
One name: 5QY
Got banned for dm ads on discord, fair enough, however at the time staff said it was fine and there was no rule against it. While a rule did get made, 5QY was not unbanned.
 

Centurion

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One name: 5QY
Got banned for dm ads on discord, fair enough, however at the time staff said it was fine and there was no rule against it. While a rule did get made, 5QY was not unbanned.
I don't know much about this situation but he is Network Banned now anyway.
 

TheFoodie

nothing much
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Food1e
Food1e
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I don't know much about this situation but he is Network Banned now anyway.
I didn't mention anything about in game... I said discord.
 

KiwiStrawberry

Member
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PrinterPatching
PrinterPatching
Iron
Absolutely not! We don't just "brush" off suggestions to systems like the ban appeal one. What I'm saying is, you clearly don't know how the staff members deal with appeals because basically everything in the original post is incorrect. I say this in the nicest possible way.

Moderators generally ask for opinions in the staff chat. There have been many occasions where I don't think evidence has been sufficient and have asked for extra opinions.
Calm down their swalbert... blood pressure is rising
 

PigMatt

rip skycade
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PigMatt
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Network bans include Discord
Is a network ban where you get banned on all platforms for doing inappropriate actions like a blacklist?
 

Centurion

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Is a network ban where you get banned on all platforms for doing inappropriate actions like a blacklist?
Yep, banned on Forums, Discord and in game
 

TheFoodie

nothing much
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Network bans include Discord
Sorry I was thinking of an ip ban.

But anyway, just because he's network banned now, doesn't mean it was unfair beforehand. The rule before was dm ads is allowed as long as it isn't a bot.

He got banned for it because (quoting what space told me in dms): "I don't want him in the discord server if he's just gonna spam advertise \o/". If you don't want people to advertise... Make a rule. Don't allow it, then just ban someone for it without announcing it, just cause you don't want them there.

I know Ryan, he would've stopped if a rule had been made and announced. We can't follow non existent rules.
 

Centurion

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Sorry I was thinking of an ip ban.

But anyway, just because he's network banned now, doesn't mean it was unfair beforehand. The rule before was dm ads is allowed as long as it isn't a bot.

He got banned for it because (quoting what space told me in dms): "I don't want him in the discord server if he's just gonna spam advertise \o/". If you don't want people to advertise... Make a rule. Don't allow it, then just ban someone for it without announcing it, just cause you don't want them there.

I know Ryan, he would've stopped if a rule had been made and announced. We can't follow non existent rules.
Higher members of staff have the ability to do this. We make decisions that we believe will he best for the network, if Space thought that he shouldn't be allowed on the server then she is well within her right to do that.
Skycade is a private organisation, if we don't want someone using our services then we can remove their right to do so.
 

TheFoodie

nothing much
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Higher members of staff have the ability to do this. We make decisions that we believe will he best for the network, if Space thought that he shouldn't be allowed on the server then she is well within her right to do that.
Skycade is a private organisation, if we don't want someone using our services then we can remove their right to do so.
Then you should expect people to be pissed that they got banned for something that was allowed by staff and changed without even telling your own staff members. Like I'm sorry but if you had literally created a rule he would've stopped. The rule was made anyway, so why ban him before you do that?
 

Centurion

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Then you should expect people to be pissed that they got banned for something that was allowed by staff and changed without even telling your own staff members. Like I'm sorry but if you had literally created a rule he would've stopped. The rule was made anyway, so why ban him before you do that?
Well, you could compare to how the results of legal cases can set precedents for future cases
 

MadTingBanter

New member
cnadycane
cnadycane
default
I've decided to have this thread because just these past few weeks there has been so much problems that I think should be addressed.

The subject of this thread is how the system is flawed here on Skycade. But don't worry, I have a solution.

Let's start with the problem. The problem is, staff can't over rule staff. Well you're probably thinking "well pfft this guy is dumb obviously we aren't going to go over another staff's decision". Keep reading I'll explain my point.

You look at Arkenive's ban. He got banned for a fake overlay. He shows erhip that overlay. Erhip doesn't ban him cause he knows its false. But then he gets banned by a different staff. Even though erhip knows it's false. So this certain staff just went over another staff's opinion. But when it's the other way around, and erhip tries to explain that it was fake cause Arkenive showed it to him. Then he can't go over that staff's decision. That my friends, is unacceptable.

So you're probably thinking, alright alright. That's just one time. You look at Hugo and OA. Both post the same exact meme. One gets a ban and then unban and one gets banned. Hugo got unbanned because apparently he was warned. But guys, it's the same meme. Why doesn't the other guy get unbanned and just get warned like Hugo? Because there are 2 different staff with different opinions. And act different ways to different people.

You need 3 different evidence to prove something. Well here's the 3rd. Amies said something inappropriate. And he got warned. When Steve quoted him he got banned. He is now unbanned because again, it's unfair.

It's not possible to keep track of the rules so it just turns to "I have to avoid x staff because he dislikes me and he can ban me for what he thinks is sufficient and nothing could be done".

When one staff bans for "x" and another staff bans for "y" and one staff disagrees for banning for "x". But if you get banned for "x" you're screwed because even if a staff doesn't agree with your ban they can't unban you.

My solution:

How can we keep track of what to do and what not to do? But as you guys know, I won't leave you without a solution. My solution is have staff agree on one thing. Moreover, if 4 mods disagree with 1 mod. That one mod would have to listen to the other 4.

Chart:

*Helper has to listen to the mentor so irrelevant*
4 mods = can over rule 1 mods decision
2 srmods = can over rule 1 mods decision
2 admins = can over rule 1 srmods decision
Staff manager = over rule all

If there's a problem you just calculate with the chart..

I decided to make this thread because of many people like me. Where I have multiple staff saying my discord ban is insufficient. But they can't over rule 1-2 staff.

It is absurd that 1 staff can say no to like 5 staff. Just because he thinks something is sufficient. We need to fix this ASAP.
I feel you, me and this guy had a misunderstanding but at the time the situation was that he scammed me, we had evidence to that and he got banned, however another staff unbanned him and punished me?? I was so close to quitting! However it turns out I was right, I was scammed, but he didn’t do it intentionally, he gave me the wrong thing without realisation.
 

TheFoodie

nothing much
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Food1e
Food1e
Diamond
Well, you could compare to how the results of legal cases can set precedents for future cases
If there's no law against something, but someone is being taken to court for it, I'm fairly sure they can make a law, but they can't punish the person who broke it before it was made. Not quite sure how this helps. Also, it's a minecraft server with bans, not a lawsuit.
 

Arkenive

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Your whole post is about how staff can't change others staff's decisions but this is an example of that happening. Idk if you know what went on behind the scenes but the bans were fixed because a number of staff felt that the bans were wrong.
Let me give an example of how flawed this still is. I was muted for accidental advertisement, which all-in-all, is still fair enough as in the end, it was my fault. Fast forward to a few days later, about a day into my reduced mute, the end resets. I find a portal leading to the ender dragon and I enter it. Fast forward an hour or so, I'm still fighting it and Clam_ along with one of his friends finds another portal and enters it which leads to the ender dragon. At this point, I've killed the dragon about 3 times but it keeps glitching. So I hop on Discord to ping him on ranks-channel to warn him about the glitch. I also had a few personal queries I would like to ask Clam_ and as he hasn't responded to the messages as I sent them, I decided to go back on SMP and name a villager pet of mine, 'Check Discord'. I directed Clam_ to the villager so he would see the message and he definitely saw it but thought it was mute evading!? I've been told by many staff that if I was to require help from a staff member, I would be allowed to mute evade to gain this required help but this is what I get? A fat, unjustified, 30 day ban. A few of the staff members who thought this was unjust came together to try and get me unbanned but to no avail. I posted an appeal, it got denied. The aforementioned staff continued to argue how unjust this was, but only to a 1 week reduce!? How is this fair in the slightest? Shouldn't an unfair ban receive a complete unban?
 
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SoMadSoBad

Active member
SoCalmSoAverage
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I still don't get why TheFlyingCamel is staff
 
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