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The Current Flaws in KitPvP

Fallen

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#1
Some the things I currently see bad about KitPvP, in no specific order
Let me preface this by saying that if you don't know me, I have played kitpvp enough to have been on the leaderboards in the current map, almost be on the leaderboards last map, and earned kitmaster by actually playing the game. I have some experience with the current state of KitPvP, though admittedly not the most, and I will be happy to expand my viewpoints when I see fit to if someone brings up an intelligent point.

New armour refresh isn't needed, higher killstreaks have been achieved before without this, and the new map hasn't hit the highest KS of last map, with virtually no changes but a /soup, which in strafe you can run away with anyways until it respawns. I feel that once the last highest KS (iirc it was 427) is reached again, that an armour refresh should be put into the game. As well as this, 2.5k is far far too high, as well as 24 hours being far far too long to use it.

Events are unpolished, despite having suggestions "open" and being out since the game mode came out.
Starting off with the double coins event: Pretty sure it's broken ngl haven't seen it after the first week despite 6 hours online for days in a row multiple times. Asked other people and this is their experience as well. If this worked it would be decent, a motive for players to stop playing the new run away metagame and fight for an increased shot at getting a new kit quicker, or to rack up that number to go as high as possible.
Infection is horribly flawed. More than 80% of the time, the person infected will tag their friends so they can get on with playing the game and keep their ks, then /spawn to end the event. The reward isn't high enough (if it even works, past 20 times it's happened to me the person did /spawn) to be motivating to play the game, and with only one person being infected, and it grinding the entire game to a halt, it's completely unfun and just becomes a worse version of hide and seek.
Possible way to make infection more fun: Make the coin reward a random number between 1-3k, or somewhere around there, and make it so that when the non-infecteds get tagged, they also turn infected. Give the infected people speed 2, and the non infected people speed 3. This balances the game more and makes it fun, as the non-infected people have a better chance to run away from a solo infected, but if they team on them it becomes even and open for tricks and actually playing a fun game, instead of the hold w and cut corners it would be without it. As well as this, add an /eventend command, or something similar, to opt out of the current event and keep your ks.
Kill the King: Haven't played it enough to offer any feedback. What I can say right off though is that the reward likely isn't high enough.

Possibly fun event: Something like tag, where a scoreboard appears with the top 5 players names on it. One person is randomly assigned the tagger at the start of the event. The tagger is invincible to normal attacks and gets speed 2. If you punch somebody with a special item, or just punch them doesn't matter, they become tagged (and cannot hit you back) You get one points every second you're not tagged. Every 5 seconds, the lowest scoring person also becomes a tagger. The game ends when there are only 3 players left, at which point the person with the most points is the winner and gets somewhere around 2-3k coins. Players are discouraged from only hiding, as if you are within say 10 blocks (could be changed) of a tagger, you get double points every second you're left untagged.

Before the recent shift of Skycade from being a EULA compliant server, KitPvP was doing fine with kit progression. People actually had to work for their kits, and kitmaster was something special that you had to attain legit, by being a good player, or at least knowing how to game KitPvP. Bounties helped with this a lot, where you could have your friends try to help you get more coins, as well as getting more in general than the map before. This balanced out the progression greatly, and provided new and old players to earn their way through /shop to get more and more kits to have the advantage. This changed for the worst, in relation to last maps kit progression. To put it shortly, it sucks. Many people still grind for kits they want to use or think will be good, such as dubstep, strafe, gank, tank, warrior, and kitmaster. These people who now put in effort are shadowed in time and skill by people who can just drop $43 GDP/53.95 USD (20x2 keys, 10 keys, and 3 keys, since you start with 4 out of 57) and get every kit in the entire game, with no work required at all. This also breaks the souping mechanic, as the people who buy their way to kitmaster, those who pay to get a massive advantage over newer players, don't care about coin usage. They're free to use /soup all they want, without ever learning the cost or drawback of it, as they never know how good a kill is, and don't even come to value them, breaking the point of Kit.

Which brings up another topic. /soup is bonkers. The current /soup command takes 100 coins and you need to wait for a minute before using it again. Firstly, this only further adds to the meta of running away to survive, heavily buffed by the new map. The cooldown is good, but the cooldown should be lowered to prevent as many "I'm going to run away for 30 seconds because you used all the soups in my inventory and I can't keep fighting" as possible, which no one should think is a good thing to have in the kitpvp community and meta. Secondly, the coin increase from 20 to 100 is absolutely crippling to newer players. The old players who have dubstep, strafe, gank, tank, kitmaster, whatever, don't care about an 80 increase in coins, as they likely have thousands saved up already. The newer players though? They sometimes will have 9 coins in their pocket, just fresh off of buying a new kit, or just barely starting out. And and 80 coin increase to them is a ton. 5x more than before, it's far more difficult to survive in a fight when you can't /soup or it will take 50% of your current coins, coins that took, let's say a 4 ks, to obtain. That's hard as balls with the starting kits, unless you luck out and grab dub or tank with your free /crate, as there's likely to be 5 tryhard strafes all the time camping spawn. It just makes the already intense climb of default to dubstep that much more difficult. If you have to have the increased coins, make it something like 30-40, about a 2 KS, which is about the soups it might take to kill a decent strafe or a bad dubstep in default.


The kit diversity, or the kit metagame, is absolutely dreadful. The current kits in play by good players, across the board, almost entirely consists of: Dubstep, strafe, gank, tank, kitmaster. Some other good kits that are somtimes used are knight, warrior, and very rarely cobra and wither, as a substitute until dubstep is gotten.
This is because these kits are the only viable options if you're going to grind for coins, therefore more kits or ability to /soup, therefore kitmaster, and as such, are the only ones that the people trying to get a good KD or coins ever use. And these hardly have the most diversity in playstyle. We have the hit in someone's face a lot category, championing Dubstep, tank, kitmaster, knight, warrior, cobra, and wither, and we have the kit a lot then run away to refill then hit a lot again hosting the kits strafe and gank. This takes out a lot of the fun for a KITPVP gamemode, where different kits should provide a fun and new way to play the game, not just all fall prey to the high damage and high mobility/defense category all of these kits fall into. Due to these metakits ruling the server, it trumps a lot of the variety a normal kitpvp game should have. Me and other players have provided detailed lists in the past explaining exactly how to change kits, what it will do to them, and how it will help Kit become more fun, and they have all been looked over, ignored, or even lied upon. I still have my comprehensive list that, at the time, every single staff member and multiple top players had looked over, contributed to, and agreed that it would make kitpvp better.

Tons of glitches that have been around forever have still not been fixed. These glitches include, but are not limited to:
Kitmaster resetting armour if you die in the middle of a change
Firearcher not being able to shoot the bow consistently
Tribesman loosing all effects after they go invisible
Nametags being randomly visible for periods of time
Support ability randomly getting rid of cooldown
 

Fallen

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#2
As well as all that, here's my thoughts on the new map.

Pros and cons of the new map:
Pros
:
More opportunities for Cerberus

Bridge is cool

Cons:
Far too big, encourages a new meta of running away with little to no opportunities to catch the person running, making mobility kits such as strafe and gank, the two forerunners, to become even more powerful

Far worse water pools for hydra and bow kits

One cool spot (the bridge) as opposed to the 4 (Lava cave, 1v1 cave, cliff, oasis) on the last map

Less variety in surroundings despite being a much larger map. This time we have flat areas (that aren't that flat), bad water spots, bad lava spots, a lowered slightly less flat area, a raised less flat area, bridge, and a tree which makes everything harder to do for almost every kit but mobility kits.

On the old map, there were places where people would go to have a good time, and not necessarily fight. Whether these were closed off areas, defensible areas, or just areas a bit out of the way, they were there and provided a change of pace for those who wanted a slightly more relaxing game to play. The new map seems to be focused purely on aggression, with seemingly no spots to hang out with friends and mess around, except for maybe the bridge and the place under the lava pit south of spawn. This puts the gamemode into a more dull state, with little to nothing to change up the pace or environment. I understand that a common argument will be "why would you play kitpvp if you didn't want to fight," and to that I respond with; if you did one thing the entire time, say factions was only ever conquest, or skyblock was only ever a cobblestone generator, it wouldn't be very fun would it. There's also a community in the server, sometimes hidden by the higher state of toxicity than, say, skyblock or smp, but it's there. Giving a place to the players to have fun and mess around with their friends other than GENERIC FLAT GROUND AREA NUMBER 7 would be a welcome change of pace for players.
 

Materializing

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#3
/soup - I agree that the cooldown should be decreased. On this map it’s super easy to just run and keep running until the cool down ends, and personally I don’t want to have to chase someone for hours just to kill them.
Adding onto that, targetting reports are basically screwed up now. Targeting before was repeatedly chasing someone around the map. Now, if you chase someone like halfway across the map, it’s targeting. The map shouldn’t be as big as it is - people just keep running.

Kit diversity - I definitely agree that there should be way more kits that actually stand a chance and still have different abilities. No one uses about like 85% of the kits, and it’s pretty much useless having them, except for kitmaster.

Kitmaster - this is something that genuinely makes me upset. People should NOT get kitmaster from keys alone. So many nons have it just because they afked for Keys.
One thing that might fix this is adding in a feature that kicks people if they are afk for more than, say, five minutes, just kicks just back to the hub. This would prevent afking for kit keys and would make getting kitmaster actually a challenge.

Glitches - KitPvP glitches are way too overlooked, some of these have been around forever and still haven’t even been acknowledged. The no soup glitch has been around since last map, and it still hasn’t been fixed.

Events - honestly KitPvP doesn’t even need events, but if they HAVE to be added, at least listen to the community on what they want added. None of the events have really been interesting to me at all.

Armour refresh - I strongly disagreed with adding this, and I still despise the idea. It’s unnecessary and really just shouldn’t be a thing.

Thanks for making this thread, Fallen, I agree with pretty much everything you’ve said here
 

Fallen

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#4
Adding onto that, targetting reports are basically screwed up now. Targeting before was repeatedly chasing someone around the map. Now, if you chase someone like halfway across the map, it’s targeting. The map shouldn’t be as big as it is - people just keep running.
Thanks for bringing this up! I completely forgot about the new system of targetting. The current targeting system is even more messed up than you realize. Now, if someone has a bounty, you're allowed to go back for them an infinite number of times. The lowest bounty possible is at 5 kills, a 200 bounty. This means that if the person you're targetting has 2 kills to start out with, you can, theoretically, come back an infinite number of times until they die. Please note that I have not checked up on this rule in about a week or so, however when I last did it was the same as what I've said above.
 

NegativeKB

#1 on Kitpvp ;) | Currently with 34,000+ kills!
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#5
I would of beat the top ks but I broke the coin system and my coins went to the negatives which forced me to end the killstreak
 

Artistblock

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#6
Kits are wack. nothing new
 

Taka

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#7
Some the things I currently see bad about KitPvP, in no specific order
Let me preface this by saying that if you don't know me, I have played kitpvp enough to have been on the leaderboards in the current map, almost be on the leaderboards last map, and earned kitmaster by actually playing the game. I have some experience with the current state of KitPvP, though admittedly not the most, and I will be happy to expand my viewpoints when I see fit to if someone brings up an intelligent point.

New armour refresh isn't needed, higher killstreaks have been achieved before without this, and the new map hasn't hit the highest KS of last map, with virtually no changes but a /soup, which in strafe you can run away with anyways until it respawns. I feel that once the last highest KS (iirc it was 427) is reached again, that an armour refresh should be put into the game. As well as this, 2.5k is far far too high, as well as 24 hours being far far too long to use it.

Events are unpolished, despite having suggestions "open" and being out since the game mode came out.
Starting off with the double coins event: Pretty sure it's broken ngl haven't seen it after the first week despite 6 hours online for days in a row multiple times. Asked other people and this is their experience as well. If this worked it would be decent, a motive for players to stop playing the new run away metagame and fight for an increased shot at getting a new kit quicker, or to rack up that number to go as high as possible.
Infection is horribly flawed. More than 80% of the time, the person infected will tag their friends so they can get on with playing the game and keep their ks, then /spawn to end the event. The reward isn't high enough (if it even works, past 20 times it's happened to me the person did /spawn) to be motivating to play the game, and with only one person being infected, and it grinding the entire game to a halt, it's completely unfun and just becomes a worse version of hide and seek.
Possible way to make infection more fun: Make the coin reward a random number between 1-3k, or somewhere around there, and make it so that when the non-infecteds get tagged, they also turn infected. Give the infected people speed 2, and the non infected people speed 3. This balances the game more and makes it fun, as the non-infected people have a better chance to run away from a solo infected, but if they team on them it becomes even and open for tricks and actually playing a fun game, instead of the hold w and cut corners it would be without it. As well as this, add an /eventend command, or something similar, to opt out of the current event and keep your ks.
Kill the King: Haven't played it enough to offer any feedback. What I can say right off though is that the reward likely isn't high enough.

Possibly fun event: Something like tag, where a scoreboard appears with the top 5 players names on it. One person is randomly assigned the tagger at the start of the event. The tagger is invincible to normal attacks and gets speed 2. If you punch somebody with a special item, or just punch them doesn't matter, they become tagged (and cannot hit you back) You get one points every second you're not tagged. Every 5 seconds, the lowest scoring person also becomes a tagger. The game ends when there are only 3 players left, at which point the person with the most points is the winner and gets somewhere around 2-3k coins. Players are discouraged from only hiding, as if you are within say 10 blocks (could be changed) of a tagger, you get double points every second you're left untagged.

Before the recent shift of Skycade from being a EULA compliant server, KitPvP was doing fine with kit progression. People actually had to work for their kits, and kitmaster was something special that you had to attain legit, by being a good player, or at least knowing how to game KitPvP. Bounties helped with this a lot, where you could have your friends try to help you get more coins, as well as getting more in general than the map before. This balanced out the progression greatly, and provided new and old players to earn their way through /shop to get more and more kits to have the advantage. This changed for the worst, in relation to last maps kit progression. To put it shortly, it sucks. Many people still grind for kits they want to use or think will be good, such as dubstep, strafe, gank, tank, warrior, and kitmaster. These people who now put in effort are shadowed in time and skill by people who can just drop $43 GDP/53.95 USD (20x2 keys, 10 keys, and 3 keys, since you start with 4 out of 57) and get every kit in the entire game, with no work required at all. This also breaks the souping mechanic, as the people who buy their way to kitmaster, those who pay to get a massive advantage over newer players, don't care about coin usage. They're free to use /soup all they want, without ever learning the cost or drawback of it, as they never know how good a kill is, and don't even come to value them, breaking the point of Kit.

Which brings up another topic. /soup is bonkers. The current /soup command takes 100 coins and you need to wait for a minute before using it again. Firstly, this only further adds to the meta of running away to survive, heavily buffed by the new map. The cooldown is good, but the cooldown should be lowered to prevent as many "I'm going to run away for 30 seconds because you used all the soups in my inventory and I can't keep fighting" as possible, which no one should think is a good thing to have in the kitpvp community and meta. Secondly, the coin increase from 20 to 100 is absolutely crippling to newer players. The old players who have dubstep, strafe, gank, tank, kitmaster, whatever, don't care about an 80 increase in coins, as they likely have thousands saved up already. The newer players though? They sometimes will have 9 coins in their pocket, just fresh off of buying a new kit, or just barely starting out. And and 80 coin increase to them is a ton. 5x more than before, it's far more difficult to survive in a fight when you can't /soup or it will take 50% of your current coins, coins that took, let's say a 4 ks, to obtain. That's hard as balls with the starting kits, unless you luck out and grab dub or tank with your free /crate, as there's likely to be 5 tryhard strafes all the time camping spawn. It just makes the already intense climb of default to dubstep that much more difficult. If you have to have the increased coins, make it something like 30-40, about a 2 KS, which is about the soups it might take to kill a decent strafe or a bad dubstep in default.


The kit diversity, or the kit metagame, is absolutely dreadful. The current kits in play by good players, across the board, almost entirely consists of: Dubstep, strafe, gank, tank, kitmaster. Some other good kits that are somtimes used are knight, warrior, and very rarely cobra and wither, as a substitute until dubstep is gotten.
This is because these kits are the only viable options if you're going to grind for coins, therefore more kits or ability to /soup, therefore kitmaster, and as such, are the only ones that the people trying to get a good KD or coins ever use. And these hardly have the most diversity in playstyle. We have the hit in someone's face a lot category, championing Dubstep, tank, kitmaster, knight, warrior, cobra, and wither, and we have the kit a lot then run away to refill then hit a lot again hosting the kits strafe and gank. This takes out a lot of the fun for a KITPVP gamemode, where different kits should provide a fun and new way to play the game, not just all fall prey to the high damage and high mobility/defense category all of these kits fall into. Due to these metakits ruling the server, it trumps a lot of the variety a normal kitpvp game should have. Me and other players have provided detailed lists in the past explaining exactly how to change kits, what it will do to them, and how it will help Kit become more fun, and they have all been looked over, ignored, or even lied upon. I still have my comprehensive list that, at the time, every single staff member and multiple top players had looked over, contributed to, and agreed that it would make kitpvp better.

Tons of glitches that have been around forever have still not been fixed. These glitches include, but are not limited to:
Kitmaster resetting armour if you die in the middle of a change
Firearcher not being able to shoot the bow consistently
Tribesman loosing all effects after they go invisible
Nametags being randomly visible for periods of time
Support ability randomly getting rid of cooldown
Speed 2 for sniper kit and fire archer kit
+1
 

Cact_i

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#8
kit pvp is so trash now
 

Cact_i

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#9
they should add a item you can click to choose which type of soup cool down you want 20 coins for normal 1 minute soup cooldown 500 coins for say an instant soup cooldown and you can switch between the two using an item you have in ur hotbar at spawn or a command so you can switch ingame
 

DabOnDatCheese

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#10
Add new kits and a GOOD LOOKING MAP
 

AmazingPiggy

/tpa amazingpiggy for a raid!!!
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#11
Make an option to switch out soups for pots with pots not being able to heal other players.
 

erhip

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#15
As well as all that, here's my thoughts on the new map.

Pros and cons of the new map:
Pros
:
More opportunities for Cerberus

Bridge is cool

Cons:
Far too big, encourages a new meta of running away with little to no opportunities to catch the person running, making mobility kits such as strafe and gank, the two forerunners, to become even more powerful

Far worse water pools for hydra and bow kits

One cool spot (the bridge) as opposed to the 4 (Lava cave, 1v1 cave, cliff, oasis) on the last map

Less variety in surroundings despite being a much larger map. This time we have flat areas (that aren't that flat), bad water spots, bad lava spots, a lowered slightly less flat area, a raised less flat area, bridge, and a tree which makes everything harder to do for almost every kit but mobility kits.

On the old map, there were places where people would go to have a good time, and not necessarily fight. Whether these were closed off areas, defensible areas, or just areas a bit out of the way, they were there and provided a change of pace for those who wanted a slightly more relaxing game to play. The new map seems to be focused purely on aggression, with seemingly no spots to hang out with friends and mess around, except for maybe the bridge and the place under the lava pit south of spawn. This puts the gamemode into a more dull state, with little to nothing to change up the pace or environment. I understand that a common argument will be "why would you play kitpvp if you didn't want to fight," and to that I respond with; if you did one thing the entire time, say factions was only ever conquest, or skyblock was only ever a cobblestone generator, it wouldn't be very fun would it. There's also a community in the server, sometimes hidden by the higher state of toxicity than, say, skyblock or smp, but it's there. Giving a place to the players to have fun and mess around with their friends other than GENERIC FLAT GROUND AREA NUMBER 7 would be a welcome change of pace for players.
The 400+ ks was preformed with hacks so I’m not sure how that can be used accurately. The souping delay actually makes people refil rather than completely relying on a /soup macro. The kit refresh helps non strafes get the high ks’s and I think the timer should be like 20 mins or so. But I agree with kit diversity being hot trash and the kitmaster bug is v annoying :(
 

Fallen

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#16
The 400+ ks was preformed with hacks so I’m not sure how that can be used accurately. The souping delay actually makes people refil rather than completely relying on a /soup macro. The kit refresh helps non strafes get the high ks’s and I think the timer should be like 20 mins or so. But I agree with kit diversity being hot trash and the kitmaster bug is v annoying :(
I was not aware you had proof of the person with the highest killstreak hacking while achieving the killstreak. I'd love to see it if you have it.
 

erhip

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#17
I was not aware you had proof of the person with the highest killstreak hacking while achieving the killstreak. I'd love to see it if you have it.
Onyx was banned for using reach. If you don’t think he used it to get that your kinda dis-illusional.
 

Fallen

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#18
Onyx was banned for using reach. If you don’t think he used it to get that your kinda dis-illusional.
If you think that because someone used hacks once and was caught for it it proves that every other time they've been good, even when shown to be talented without it through screenshare and other methods, that they were using hacks, that's really just not smart.
 

Cilckbaited

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#19
I agree, the winter map was 10x better. I think that they should just remove the snow, but keep everything else. They could replace presents with sometime else, but keep the general idea of that map.
 

ExoticPlayz

I like tortle
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#20
Why did you write an entire essay for a server that gets like 30players?
 
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